In the following excerpt, Derek and Spencer Colnharbor explore the ways in which American culture has declined, with a particular focus on music.
Derek Thompson: We've known each other for a long time. I know you and your work very well. You are not destiny. You are not a cultural debilitator who thinks things are constantly getting worse. Why did you finally bite a bullet and write a lengthy essay on the death of American culture?
Spencer Cornharbor: Yes, I mean, you're right. I'm a little optimistic at times. I'm accused of being a poptimist for my dislike. But I'm trying to listen widely and appreciate the changes in what they are. It is that humans find ways to express themselves in time when they live. And those times are defined by technological change, social change and political change. But creativity seems to be a renewable resource that is always there. Or at least that's what I was thinking, and it felt like the 2020s were rolling, the pandemic was taking place, and things in culture were getting more confused and in a way quieter.
I've worked as a cultural critic Atlantic Ocean Since 2011, I really felt that jobs had changed in the 2020s. Previously, I felt like I knew I was “writing.” You knew what the big topics of the day were: TV shows, albums, storylines where everyone in America seemed to agree that America's big swath was at the moment. In the 2020s, it was much more difficult to identify and there was much less enthusiasm for new products. And while it was happening, you've seen more and more just declaring it to be the worst time of history.
We had a terminology. Slang words in our time are like “middle” or “enshitification.” These terms indicate that we are not really satisfied with what is being presented. And the fundamental issues of culture were too big to ignore. It also tells stories that have been heard over and over again. It's like culture wars and politics that comes for real culture. You can't enjoy a movie or album without thinking about whether it's propaganda or something like that.
Quieting you wrote so beautifully. It feels like there's no more scenes. Culture does not have a community. We all consume art as a way to spend time distracting ourselves from our cell phones. And only in the way that it felt like everything was speeding up, there was more and more going on, and there was more and more being careful to be paid for every piece of art.
We all felt our attention had been corrupt over the past few years. And the fact that kids these days don't seem to be able to watch the full movie or read the full book without looking at their phones, and that these days, including themselves, seemed like a clear red flag to the state of culture. So I thought it was time to stop being Pollyanna and see what was actually going on.
Thompson: I wanted to talk about this for a long time. And whether American culture is declining or not, every conversation on this topic almost immediately falls off the rails with incredibly grand claims about the meaning of art and the incredible arguments of these decompositions. Similarly, is Taylor Swift really better than John Lennon, or was Michael Jackson clearly better than Taylor Swift?
What I liked about your essay is that you cut it all right. you said, I want to analyze the real trends and real facts that people have to tamper with, because there are ways in which cultures have changed, and there are ways in which cultures have changed rather than merely, I think Anora It's worse Godfather.' This may be true. I certainly think that's true, but I think it's difficult to actually have a fruitful discussion on podcasts.
So I want to start with the facts here. Starting with a category you know very well, it's music. What is the clearest evidence that something true and important has happened to you in the music industry that makes this moment of history different?
Kornhaber: Well, this is a really shocking statistic. [from 2021] I think a lot of people have awakened it. That means that almost 75% of today's music is old. New releases are actually a small number of things people are streaming at any time. And those numbers continue to “deteriorate”. More and more each year, we see new releases that earn small, small pieces of pie for listenership. And it seems to indicate that people are less interested in the culture now than they were yesterday. And you have a very specific example of what this means.
A few years ago, Kate Bush's Running to the Hill became massive. It approached the top of the sign [Hot 100] Charts despite being released 30 years ago. That was because it was included in a TV show. Stranger Thingsthis is totally nostalgia food. Palestic pastiches from 80's movies and TV. And that happened for the majority. Because Tiktok and platforms are allowed.
Things can come out there, catch your eye and compete directly with what's going on. And often things from the past have an advantage as they have been time-tested, and we grew up in the culture where the ideas contained within them shaped our tastes in the first place. So it felt like the past was eating the present.
Host: Derek Thompson
Guest: Spencer Corn Harbor
Producer: Devon Baroldy
